Thoughts on Overture (morning after remix)

[rallamajoop]

As promised, a bit more of a run down of what we actually got out of Overture once the story mode hit the web.

The not-so-good
Much as I try to claim I'm never in a fandom purely for the yaoi, it's hard not to feel let down. I mean, I'm sure no-one would ever expect the Sol/Ky thing to get full canonical confirmation, but we *know* they've been deliberately playing it up over the years - very likely just to draw in the yaoi-fan audience, so this was seriously out of the blue. I don't know how many people have bothered to watch that particular video, but believe me when I say that hearing Ky declaring how deeply in love he was with... er, what's-her-name, didn't do my fangirl heart any good. ^^;

It all gets pretty messy from then on in. We've got a major character romantically involved with someone who probably isn't someone we know, in a storyline that probably is an AU. Some interviews apparently support the AU theory, but people can play right through the game without knowing for sure one way or the other. I was originally working on the theory that GG2 wouldn't be strongly connected with GGX/GGXX but probably set chronologically after - so maybe they'd wrap up the PWAB plot in the X timeline then move on to finish off That Man with Overture, right? But if GG2's entirely AU but GGXXAC+ is still promising to include That Man's plans into its plot, then they appear to be trying to resolve the same plotline in two places at once, and that could get ugly. Awkward. Very awkward.

Eh, while I'm at it, I'll get the rest of my complaints out here before I move on to the positive stuff.

If That Man really was unmasked as promised, I must've blinked and missed it or something. We do see him fight, but he has a completely different voice and seems to be in a completely different form to usual. More confusion.

The explanation for why Ky no longer uses the Fuuraiken is about two sentences and implies it happened last week. How he got a new weapon so fast I don't know, it didn't seem well thought out. There's not so much as a hint as to where the Fuuenken's gone.

Still don't like Sol's new voice actor. He's tolerable, but quite apart from him not being what I'm used to, he doesn't even seem to be able to act as well as the rest of the cast. Sol may not have much emotional range, but some of his lines felt a bit flat. What worries me even more is that if they couldn't get his usual Story Mode VA for Overture, I don't really like our chances of them getting him for AC+.

The antagonism between Sol and Ky is gone - and I'm really not sure where. Ky clearly knows all about Sol's past, he doesn't even blink when Dr Paradigm starts calling him Frederick. I'd probably be all in favour of this if they'd given us the slightest clue when or how. Clearly, they must've made up well before Ky entrusted his son to Sol, but that's not much of a clue, and I really wouldn't count on the Overture series ever bothering to go back and clear that up. If this is meant to be a sequel to the original GG, they must've skipped a hell of a lot in the middle. Really, if the whole world is set in some complete AU where Sol never stole the Fuuenken and left the Order at all, it would explain a lot more.

The not-so-bad
All that's a bit of a shame, really, because up until the middle I was really enjoying the story. There's a lot of interesting stuff in it about the nature of magic, the Gears, Justice - and there was quite a lot more interesting stuff towards the end too, now I've found some proper translations. It's just a bit hard to know whether any of it applies to the GGX universe, which makes me that bit more uncomfortable about it.

I did really like the new characters too - though Valentine didn't make much impression on me. Sin spends a lot of the latter half of the game acting like a moody teenager. He's got some kind of issues with Ky which I couldn't fully make sense of, but I still did like him overall (hell, he probably *is* about in his moody teen phase in Gear years).

And, y'know, considering that they married Ky off to some faceless, nameless source of ongoing confusion, a lot of parts of that side of the story were actually handled surprisingly well. It may have come out of the blue, but in their (limited) defense, it was obviously supposed to have done. Izuna and Dr Paradigm nearly had heart attacks when they found out. And while we never find out much about what's-her-name, they did put some decent effort into underlining just how important she was to Ky and Sin. Not enough to really mitigate having this sprung on us, but it doesn't hurt. I do wonder whether we're actually going to see anything of her in later installments to the series. The funny thing is, I wouldn't actually count on that either...

Overall... well, really quite disappointing after all that build up (on the sales front as well, apparently). And there's no helping that I'm still stuck on the issue of Ky's new girlfriend. Sol/Ky fandom's never been exactly huge and a plot development like this isn't going to help any, and I'm selfish enough when it comes to wanting new fanstuff to enjoy that that irritates me. =P

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what Accent Core Plus has in store.

But hey - no sense being all gloomy about it. So here's an off-the-top-of-my-head list of what you can re-interpret out of Overture from the Sol/Ky perspective.

1. The game has added a lot of support to any interpretation where Sol and Ky have gotten over their antagonism, told each other all their secrets and are generally Getting On with each other.

2. The game has stated quite clearly that Ky has no compunctions - religious or otherwise - about making it known what he's been doing in private with someone he's not married too but still in love with. XD

3. Turn it how you like, Sin still has two Dads. Sol is obviously very much part of the family.

4. C'mon, how much can we be expected to care about a relationship between a lead character and someone they're so very determined not to tell us anything about, huh?

I'm also coming up with all these terrible ideas for 4-koma parodies of certain scenes, but they're not going to be much good until the full contents of the story mode are a bit more common knowledge >.>

Comments

[r-chan.livejournal.com]

It is really depressing that a game that had such a promising build up (That Man revealed, questions answered, awesome Sol/Ky crack theories, etc.) turned out to be such a let down :/ On the pairing front, I'm hoping the Sol/Ky doujinshi project can save most the shippers.

Being one of those who believes the AU thing, I am choosing to disregard Overture completely and hope that AC-PLUS is going to be an X-VERSE continuation rather than a send off. I need familiar grounds here, not Daisuke's crazy re-writes.

Still, 'two dads'... XD

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and the real shame is that they wouldn't really have needed to make it all that different to fix up most of what's bothering me. As it is, it's really just confused everything terribly and given us more questions than answers.

How is the doujinshi project going, btw? I haven't been around much since you made that first post, so is there any new news on that front? (I'd be tempted to suggest including Overture-stories in there after all, simply because some slight re-writing to a few scenes could go a *loooong* way. >D)

From the interviews, it really does sound like they *meant* it to be taken as an AU, but if you can play through the whole game and not know for certain, then they've failed a bit on the coherent storytelling front. Makes me worry a bit whether the story from AC+ is in safe hands, but at least I'm 99.9% certain it's not going to connect to Overture in any way.

It's like 'Ishiwatari, if you *really* wanted to give them a kid to raise that badly, you didn't have to go *that* far to come up with an excuse!' Maybe I should think about extending the Pants on a Stick-verse at some point. XD

[r-chan.livejournal.com]

Oh, the doujinshi project looks pretty good so far :3 There look to be about 4 of us in at the moment - here's hoping I can snag a few more!

I think/hope AC+ will turn out just fine. Although I'm not getting super optimistic, just in case XD It has a story mode, and has all the characters with all the back story I know and love, so I refuse to believe it'll end that badly :D BUT THE PANTS ON A STICK-VERSE MUST ALSO BE DONE!

[k-chan009.livejournal.com]

"He's got some kind of issues with Ky which I couldn't fully make sense of, but I still did like him overall (hell, he probably *is* about in his moody teen phase in Gear years). "


HIS MOTHER LEFT HIM ALONE WITH DADDY!!! Of course he's moody!!! *waves flag*

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

He sure gets on with his Dad a whole lot better. Y'know, the one who beats him up when he won't be quiet? XD

(There's actually this bit towards the end where Sol knocks him across the room and basically goes 'right, you're going to sit down and talk all this stuff out with your Mum other Dad *right now*, or you don't get to come save the world with the rest of us.' XDD)

Compleate Crack theory on the Real Truth behind Sin's Mom

[ldydragon7.livejournal.com]

(Keeping in mind that all I know about GG is what I've read in your journal and that I am an unashamed slash fan who really liked your 'pants on a stick' fic)

Sol IS Sin's other mommy daddy. However, given Ky's political position he can't admit that yes he has a kid even though he's not married AND come out of the closet at the same time, it would be too much for his poor people to take. So he had to do some quick thinking and came up with this mysterious GIRL gear person (female really) that he's madly in love but who conviently isn't around because of ummm stuff. As for her background, well Ky was kinda put on the spot and the first thing he came up with was to steal Dizzy's background, change a few names and tada! Then he sends Sin off with mommy daddy his good old friend Sol, "We're just really good friends, really" to train him up, its not because Sol's Sin's daddy no not at all nothing to do with that really. This also explains the other people's 'wait, what!?' reaction to hearing about Sin's 'Mommy' plus gives Ky the chance to talk about the love of his life without any one catching on.

:) Ta-da Crack!

Re: Compleate Crack theory on the Real Truth behind Sin's Mom

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

There could be some fun to be had with that theory - if only they hadn't made *quite* such a big deal about her over the last half of the game. Still, you could probably get away with tweaking the theory a little. She must exist, Sin and Ky must be at least relatively attached to her, but the rest of what they said about her, now that could go either way... *ponders this new set of possibilities*

Alternately, there's my own working crack theory, which is that if Ky felt the need to be so surprisingly explicit about what he and she had to do to produce Sin, clearly this is a matter of great personal pride for him because that was the only time he ever managed to get it up for her. >D

help, the crackfic is out to get me again! And I'm barely started on my backlog!

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Honestly, watching the story made it seem pretty obvious that it was AU to me, and they've said as much in interviews. But there are just as obviously lots of fans who've played through it and still aren't sure one way or the other, and I have all these weird, old-fashioned ideas about how stories should, y'know, speak for themselves and not require us to go hunting through interviews just to make sense of them. ><

Sin... erg, well, he really does get quite whiney about Ky for a while there, which lost him a lot of points in my book. But at the end of the day, I still liked him a lot.

See? So much potential they could have used, so obviously now it's up to us to make up for it. *evil grin*

[kinkgoeshere.livejournal.com]

one, I am lazy. My LJ is actually renabunny42 but I rarely use it anymore read I more or less moved to IJ besides for fandom comm wise

two, yes I am a random person XD I recently went through a Guilty Gear spree, which included listening to all the drama CDs and reading a handful of fic. (It was actually kinda amusing, I stumbled on your lj a bit back while reading certain library verse holic fic >> to be looking at another fandom and go '....OH! SAME PERSON :O' was funny XD) I've liked reading this stuff since I don't know Japanese and don't have a 360.

Now that I have that out of the way


Is it wrong that I'm not bothered the least bit about past!girl? I did blink at him having a kid, but in the interlude him having a girltoy is not an issue for me. I dunno, maybe I just don't get why most of the fandom is all "OMG, THERE WAS GIRL. THAT MUST MEAN NO BUTTACTION" but then, the world thinks people like I are fictional, SO *is bisexual*

Point 2! That was something that popped into my mind. I think Mr. godboy being boinked at all would be more an issue then past girl boinking on his part. (But, er, why do I keep hearing them call Sin's mum his wife?)

Overall, I think you could fit it in timeline wise. Just, er, they skipped. A lot. Which makes for confusion. Xenosaga flashback?



..........also, it gives me good chance to joke about how ironic it is that Ky seems to be Gear-sexual. Will we hear about drunken one night stands with Testament next?

[kinkgoeshere.livejournal.com]

..............That's a fun crack theory to work with, Sin comes a drunken night with Testament and Dizzy-like girl was Ky's best attempt at covering it up. Sin of course knows the truth, goes along with the act, but is pissed and slightly worried that he was produced from a loveless one night stand. Since he can't act out about that in public, he chooses other ways to show his rage :)

Sol, of course, thinks they're both being silly. But knows when to let people just be idiots, and when to thwap the kid to go talk with dad.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Ah, hi - randoms are always welcome here. The '....OH! SAME PERSON :O' thing happens a lot in fandom, I notice. It must be smaller than we all think, or something.

Is it wrong that I'm not bothered the least bit about past!girl?

If she was just a past!girl, I wouldn't be worried either, but the game makes it clear she's very, very much part of the present - and she's been secretly living with him ever since they met. We don't see her in the game because of the whole protective seal thing, but that's only a short term deal, and Ky makes a very big deal about just how madly in love with her he is. And then they spend a whole lot of the rest of the game going on about how important she is to him and Sin. That's awfully if not impossibly hard to work around. -_-

Timeline-wise, it only fits if you're willing to accept that Ky and Dizzy first met and made little impression on each other, went their separate ways - then less than a year later, met again, fell madly in love with each other, ditched the police force and the Jellyfish Pirates overnight and ran off to found a kingdom together. Quite apart from the stupid, that's really not how they make it sound it happened in the game.

..........also, it gives me good chance to joke about how ironic it is that Ky seems to be Gear-sexual.

Now that part did amuse me a good bit. *g* It's like he finally got over his Gear=Evil thing and went completely the other way.

Hey, I should've had that on the list, shouldn't I? "5. Ky totally has a massive thing for Gears." XD

This is getting to be way more of a hassle as it goes...

[shinigamixiii.livejournal.com]

Subject says all.

I've recieved short little summaries of what happens later in the game and it gets even more confusing, trust me. You bring up a lot of good points about the game's plot holes that obviously need to be fixed. I'm not sure if you've seen it already, but the promotional video for the game's out. And boy, does that contain some confusing clips >_>

I really wonder how and if at all some of these blatant questions will be answered at any point. (your SolKy interpretations are very useful, by the way XD)

Re: This is getting to be way more of a hassle as it goes...

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

I think I missed a major plot hole in my list too - because I haven't yet heard so much as a whisper of explanation about how Ky wound up as king of Illyuria. You'd really think a change that big would deserve *some* kind of explanation.

Ironically, most of the list is stuff I'd originally thought sounded like interesting plot developments and was really looking forward to having explained - if only they'd actually bothered to explain it. But if it's AU we can't count on the X series to ever fill the gaps, and if they didn't feel like clearing anything up in the first installment to the series, I'd be surprised if they bothered to come back to it.

I have a hunch that promotional video is a last ditch attempt to get the game some publicity. Its sales figures have been miserable so far.

(your SolKy interpretations are very useful, by the way XD)

*g* I do my best. (I'm sure I'm guilty of getting a lot of people expecting a lot more from the game than we got, so I think I have some sort of duty to make up for it. >D)

Re: This is getting to be way more of a hassle as it goes...

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

PS: That icon is beautifully appropriate. XD

[nazarale.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, I think I'm going to end up rabbling on your journal instead of the main GG comm. Please forgive me!

You know, what probably disappoints me the most is that I think Overture could've become better. I wouldn't have minded Ky's, uh, wife (?) because I thought it'd be a cute "Sin has two daddies and a mommy" deal. But... it wasn't like that at all. I don't know, I guess I was hoping that Ky would end up being a good father or something. Not the typical "I work too much and don't pay attention to my kids" deal, if I'm understanding it right. It just gave me a sort of :\ feeling.

What worries me even more is that if they couldn't get his usual Story Mode VA for Overture, I don't really like our chances of them getting him for AC+.

Please don't say that. Please, please, please. I eventually got used to it, but there's nothing like the original Story Mode Sol.

Speaking of voices, couldn't they have kept That Man's voice the same? His voice made me do a double-take because it sounded so much like Ky's. Although, holy crap, that'd make an interesting twist leik whoah.

I actually saw/listened to the OST first, before reading the translations and watching the videos. So I totally thought there was going to be a whole Sol vs. Ky thing or a Ky vs. Sin thing. Which would have been cool. But I guess that's only for the online mode deal. I like how they still describe Ky as Sol's rival but I ain't seein' it! I think the best parts about Sol and Ky were their fights against each other, as well as the sort-of alliance they could also have. (Like Ky's joke towards Sol in the GGX+ story mode.)

But hey, this game let us hear Ky laugh near the end. But hearing him say 'temee' was so awkward. XD

By the way, wasn't Ishiwatari saying (before the game was released) that this was a direct sequel to GG, so all the holes in between the X series and GG would be fixed? I don't think it worked.

And I want to draw lots of things, too. I keep holding myself back, saying 'you haven't even played it yet!' but it's really hard to resist. Crap, this got long. I'm sorry! D:

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Nah, that's totally cool. I'm finding getting to ramble about this stuff to other GG fans very therapeutic.

Having gotten hold of decent translations of the whole thing, the real shame is I'm pretty sure I would've loved Overture if they'd only fixed up those holes.

In vague attempt at Ky defense, he clearly cares about Sin a lot, but he's been trying to run a country while his superpowered Gear son grows from a baby to a moody teenager in the space of about three years. And Sin - well, he *does* have two daddies and a mummy, he just has a few issues with one of the three. (Damn, but I could've liked all that stuff so much better if they'd only tweaked a few aspects. ><)

Please don't say that. Please, please, please. I eventually got used to it, but there's nothing like the original Story Mode Sol.

There isn't, is there? (Hell, my sister-who-barely-cares-about-GG will make a point of telling our friends how great his voice is.) This is me really hoping I'm wrong.

Speaking of voices, couldn't they have kept That Man's voice the same?

I think they said something about him being de-aged somehow? :/ At least that's one point I have some faith they might've gotten around to explaining at some later point in the series.

I like how they still describe Ky as Sol's rival but I ain't seein' it!

Dude, tell me about it! If they're going to go the whole game without explaining why Ky and Sol are suddenly on pleasant speaking terms, they could at least update Ky's frigging bio to give us a clue. I think they directly exchanged about a handful of lines all game, not counting their mutual connection to Sin. Seems like when they lost the antagonism between them, they didn't have much left.

By the way, wasn't Ishiwatari saying (before the game was released) that this was a direct sequel to GG, so all the holes in between the X series and GG would be fixed? I don't think it worked.

I was bored long enough today to come up with a complete working theory on how the Overture-universe might have happened... but it's seriously dependent on the differences starting way before the first GG. I think he may have gone and forgotten GG actually had a story (however limited), it wasn't just the title of the series.

Hah, I am the last person who has any right to complain about people leaving long comments in her journal. >.> I still say, when we still don't know when or if we're ever going to see the game in English, go ahead and draw!

[aphelion-orion.livejournal.com]

Hi there, I wandered over here from the comm, I hope you don't mind.

I'm really sad that Overture seems to be such a letdown... I've only recently gotten into the series, thanks to much prodding from a friend, and I really enjoyed the cast and the stories, even though I'm as lame a controller-operator as you'll ever find.

When I first heard of Overture, I was all "whooo", but now I'm more leaning towards "meh". I guess it's mostly the way they threw us all into cold water with the twists, the non-sequiturs, and the blatant "tralala, seems we forgot this tidbit in our crack-addled states *puff*". I feel the fandom wouldn't be reeling quite as much if they had bothered to explain a few setups.

And heh, not to worry on the Sol/Ky front. I am very much in love with this pairing, I don't care how many other people the canon marries them off to. I'm in the process of feeling my way into writing these characters, but... self-pimping in NOT a good thing when I haven't even got anything to back up my grand plans. XD;;;;

That said, I've been following your journal for a bit, and I enjoy your fanfiction very much, especially, of course, the Guilty Gear bits. This fandom has too little good writing, but I adore yours. Would you mind if I friended you? I promise I'm really quite docile. House-trained, even. ;D

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Not at all - that's why I linked to this post in the first place.

I've only recently gotten into the series, thanks to much prodding from a friend, and I really enjoyed the cast and the stories, even though I'm as lame a controller-operator as you'll ever find.

Hah, you sound far too much like me. XD (Except where the friends didn't actually have to do much prodding, and the end was me winding up embarrassingly more addicted to the series than any of them ever were. >.>)

When I first heard of Overture, I was all "whooo", but now I'm more leaning towards "meh". I guess it's mostly the way they threw us all into cold water with the twists, the non-sequiturs, and the blatant "tralala, seems we forgot this tidbit in our crack-addled states *puff*". I feel the fandom wouldn't be reeling quite as much if they had bothered to explain a few setups.

So true. The plot itself was meant to be full of unexpected twists and new information, but asking the fans to put up with all the confusion over how the timeline fits together as well got to be a bit much. The real shame is I'm still sure I would've loved the story if they'd only fixed a few things.

And heh, not to worry on the Sol/Ky front. I am very much in love with this pairing, I don't care how many other people the canon marries them off to. I'm in the process of feeling my way into writing these characters, but... self-pimping in NOT a good thing when I haven't even got anything to back up my grand plans. XD;;;;

I only wish some of my favourite Japanese fanartists were feeling the same. -_- At least we've still got some outside hope AC+ will clear up the timeline issues a bit, and it's good to know English-language fandom is a bit more resilliant. ^^; After my last few major fandoms, I've been really disappointed by how little fanwork their is for Guilty Gear - especially when they've given us such great material to play with. But any mad hopes I might've had that GG2 could bring it more into the mainstream haven't come to much.

That said, I've been following your journal for a bit, and I enjoy your fanfiction very much, especially, of course, the Guilty Gear bits. This fandom has too little good writing, but I adore yours. Would you mind if I friended you? I promise I'm really quite docile. House-trained, even. ;D

Sure, friend away! ^_^ I'm not bothered, and hearing people enjoy my fic always puts me in a stupidly good mood.

[celadonite.livejournal.com]

On the bright side, at least they didn't use Ky's original design with the beard. That, and the soundtrack is one of the best in the series so far.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that early Ky design must've been someone's idea of a joke. XD Still, at least we can always count on the soundtrack.

[davaidavaidavai.livejournal.com]

If it helps, I just so happened to notice that Sin seems to have "Riot" stamped on his little cloaky. (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8084/sinriotro0.jpg) Isn't that Sol's thing? :D Aww, he looks up to his other daddy, too~

Bah, I still'd like to play it when if it comes stateside. It still looks pretty fun. Though the storyline is confusing. (And I couldn't get used to Sol's voice, either. DX)

Mostly looking foreward to AC+ now (AND PRAAAAYING IT COMES OUT HERE. Damnit.)

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

I think that must be an early draft sketch thing, since Sin's got 'Oath' written on his clothes in the actual game (some other clothing brand, presumably). It's a given how much he looks up to Sol though, he states pretty plainly he considers Sol more his father than Ky. The whole game just about *is* one poorly veiled attempt to give Sol and Ky a kid to raise, gone horribly wrong.

Yeah, me too, even just out of curiousity. Generally I like confusing storylines, just not that confusing. (Sol's always had two voice actors who meshed well - if they really needed a third one, couldn't they at least have found someone who fit? >< Gah.)

Man, I'm glad we got the announcement for that so soon after we got through all the Overture stuff - there's still some decent hope for AC+. (I'd settle for a fan-translated script, I'm not picky, but if there really are that many different scenarios to translate, it may be beyond fan-versions. *crosses fingers for an English release*)

[ellyberry.livejournal.com]

lol plot holes

Well fuck, when are we gonna see that Man's face?! Seriously, I'm dying of curiosity!!! >:E

Never been a fan of Sol/Ky, so I've been having fun laughing at all the fangirls. :P

Anyway, since GGX, GGX-2, #Reload, Accent Core are just "gaidens" according to Daisuke, then the next one most probably is a gaiden too.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Myself included, hm?

It's not just the Sol/Ky fangirls who are irritated though, there's also the fact that marrying a main character off to someone we never even see as a plot device is kinda retarded. You don't have to be a yaoi fan to be put off by nonsensical plot, and the plot's just a mess right now.

I rather wish people would stop throwing around this 'Gaiden' thing - the only source I can ever find for the word ever being used is something someone thinks they remember hearing said in an unrelated interview from years ago. Best I can tell, all they mean with the 'true sequel' stuff is that GG2 was intended to directly address the 'main' GG plot involving Sol and That Man, whereas most of the GGX series is about unrelated characters - and that's actually fair enough. No-one's particularly impressed by the idea they had to create a whole parallel universe to advance the main story though, and with GG2's sales figures, I'm thinking the GGX series may well be all we ever see continued at all.