GG manga translation problems

[rallamajoop]

So, we've hit this spot of trouble with those Guilty Gear manga translations we were working on.

As any of you who've been following the project might remember, jaseroque and I were working with sethyhide and raging_tofu to get the scans and translations done (specifically, they contacted us after we posted the script for the second chapter asking if we'd like to collaborate, and naturally we leapt on the offer - the more help the better, right?) At last check sethyhide was going to start on chapter 8 when she got the chance, jaseroque and I were working on translating chapter 9, and raging_tofu was getting ready to post her scans. Everyone seemed pretty positive about things in the messages I'd gotten and things generally seemed to be going well.

Then out of the blue, this message shows up at the Dustloop Forums thread where I'd been posting links to the scripts. After staring at it and wondering what was going on for a bit, I replied to it here and sent emails to both of the email addresses I'm aware sethyhide uses. It's been nearly two weeks now and neither have replied to me - I guess just as promised, I'm being ignored. Honestly, this is one of those posts I'd rather have avoided making if I thought there was any hope we could sort the problem out without dragging others into it, but apparently that's not an option. On the other hand, I know there are people watching this journal who've known them both longer than I have (and possibly others who'd just like to know why there hasn't been a new manga chapter translated in ages, which would also be perfectly fair), so this would be my attempt to lay out the situation and see if anyone else can help me figure out what's going on and what to do about it. 'Cause frankly, I'm at a bit of a loss right now.

I'm really not sure what jaseroque and I have done to deserve having our efforts publicly disparaged like that.

Going by the message, apparently I've been pressuring sethyhide to translate faster - and seriously, sethyhide, if you're reading this and you do feel that way, then I do apologise, it was never my intent to make you feel like you weren't keeping up. But as I said in my reply to that forum, I haven't even heard from her about the translations in something like a month, and I can't think of more than one brief question I've sent her to check how things were going on her end since then. Maybe I have somehow missed an email or skimmed over an LJ post on the subject since I last heard from her, or simply said something which got taken the wrong way, but unless someone points out to me what I've missed then I don't know where to start looking for the problem.

The other main accusation seems to be that I and jaseroque have been rushing through (yeah, at the breakneck pace of maybe one chapter a month if we're lucky) and producing dodgy translations. Since those translations have been online since August last year, and in that time neither they nor anyone else has corrected us on more than a couple of spelling errors, you can probably see why I'm so stumped to suddenly have them declared not good enough to be any use to anyone. But lets be fair - apparently they're only just now getting to the stage of putting the scanslations they were working on together, so maybe they hadn't bothered checking through them in any detail until now. So if there are errors (and I still haven't the faintest idea what kind errors there are even supposed to be) what I really don't get is why they'd tell us like this.

The idea that because there are two of us we don't have the right to make a single mistake is baffling enough - particularly given the way we've been approaching the project. The reality of the situation is that while I've got the free time and the enthusiasm to go hunting down most of the tricky kanji, my Japanese is nowhere near up to the task alone and I've never pretended it was. jaseroque is the one who's done the serious Japanese study. Once every week or two, I get her around to help me fill in the rest of the blanks, though even then there's a few parts here and there which use obscure terms or colloquialisms that she's not familiar with. So, could there be mistakes in the translations? Well, I sure hope there aren't many, but I can't rule it out. But the thing is, that's something we admitted that from the start of the project. For reference, here's what I said in the post that went with the very first translated script before raging_tofu first contacted me about collaborating, and what's also been in the About the translation page on the website ever since:

The scans we’re working for the rest of the chapters aren’t the best quality – a few panels here and there are cut off the edge of the page or too blurry to make out, and even with our collective Japanese skills there are a few bits here and there we’re not 100% certain about. Having said that though, we’re sure the result is still good enough to let people follow the story.

I guess that part could have been skim-read over or forgotten or something, but given that I know raging_tofu saw that first post before she contacted me, why all this sudden shock and horror at the idea our translations might not be absolutely perfect? As I said in my reply at the forum, I guess it is possible we didn't make it clear enough that we would have been very appreciative if they'd taken the time to check over our translations even after we posted them, but I thought expecting them to make the effort to do that when they both seemed so busy and (as far as I knew) happy with the work we'd done would be a bit unfair of me. Maybe I assumed wrong there - I don't have any way to know.

What I don't understand is why the very first thing I'd hear from either of them to tell us they were in any way unhappy with anything we've done on the project would be posted to a public message board. If sethyhide had sent me a reply saying 'look, I'm been putting off translating that next chapter because I've been focusing on your older chapters and frankly, I've been finding a lot of errors,' then I'd have been embarrassed and apologetic, and probably thanked her profusely for taking the time to correct my mistakes. Even 'wow, you guys have been making a lot of mistakes, are you sure you're up to this?' would have been fair enough if they could back it up with an example or two. But as it is, there's no specifics at all - I don't even have the faintest clue yet what kind of mistakes we're being accused of making. Is it a simple case of different interpretations of the same lines? Have I missed panels or gotten things in the wrong order? Have they simply never encountered the word 'ofukuro' being used as an archaic term for 'mother' before? Or have we really genuinely stuffed large parts of the chapters up? I don't know - neither of them will tell me. And I can't do anything make up for my mistakes or fix them if I don't know what I'm being accused of doing wrong.

The clincher is that I'm really not sure what makes them feel they can do a better job without us on board. And I really don't like going into this side of things, because it's going to sound a lot like I'm just trying to say "Well at least we're better translators than you are," and that's not how I want to come across at all, but to give the whole picture it needs to be covered. Since last August when we started the translation, sethyhide has translated only one chapter, and when she sent it to us there were still a few lines which she hadn't been sure about and which she'd left untranslated for us to fill in. I honestly don't mean to belittle her contribution to the project here - I understand that she doesn't have a lot of free time for this kind of work, and it was a lot less work for jaseroque and I to check over that chapter for her than it would have been for us to translate it from scratch. Translating takes a lot of effort and we really appreciate any help we can get. But if she's not 100% confident in her Japanese skills herself and doesn't have much time to work on the project... then it seems awfully self-defeating to alienate people who could help with the translating work.

Seriously guys, if I'm missing something big here, please let me know. Lord knows I've failed miserably at communication and offended people without meaning to before, but I don't know what they hope to achieve by shutting down on us like this. Telling us our translations aren't up to standard without the slightest hint as to where we've been going wrong isn't just unfair to jaseroque and me, it's unfair to everyone else who's used those scripts since we posted them. I can only presume that what they want us to do is just sit and wait until whenever they get their scanslations finished to find out those answers, but this attitude that they can just kick us off the project with hardly a word of explanation is completely out of place here. We're all amateurs doing this for love of the series - we should be on equal footing, and if they've got a valid reason to disagree with that, they could at least tell us why.

So as I said at the start, I'd rather not drag other people into the middle of this, but if anyone else who knows them better than I do has heard from sethyhide or raging_tofu about this or would be willing to talk to them and find out what's going on, then I would appreciate it. This is just a fan project we picked up because we wanted to see the manga translated and it's really not worth starting any Internet-drama over, but I'd feel bad about abandoning it now when there are only a couple of chapters left to go.

Comments

[raging-tofu.livejournal.com]

Well it seems there have been miscommunication errors, apparently on both sides.

Since I last talked to you (in that LJ comment) I've been emailing you with small errors that Akane and I were catching as I was working on the scans. Since I wasn't hearing anything back from you, I assumed you were ignoring me. The post on Dustloop was made out of frustration; I shouldn't have done it.

I suggest that we (you, myself and Akane) get together via MSN messenger or AIM to talk this out. I owe you an apology.

More later, I'm late for class~.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Okay, that is really strange. I'm very glad there's a simple explanation, but I definitely haven't gotten any of those messages you've been sending - there isn't even anything in my spam folder. I've never heard of gmail accounts just losing messages like that before, so that's quite a worry. Could I get you to try one more resend of some of those messages, maybe with a different subject line just in case that might make a difference? And for chat purposes I'm under the name Rallamajoop on AIM.

[sethyhide.livejournal.com]

I've already replied the email ever since. However you get the idea you were ignored is beyond me, but I'm sorry that it didn't reach you. I've forwarded the email again but I'll copy and paste it here just in case. I suppose the Gmail server is randomly wonky at the wrong times.
Here we go:

Hey.
I haven't gone onto anywhere else except emails and MSN to work with Raging Tofu due to lack of time and time zone differences.
Thanks for letting me know, though.

Yes, I have been working on Chapter 2 with her as she noticed that there is something wrong and asked me for help.
She did try to contact you but after repeated failed attempts, she gets frustrated. I do hope you understand where she's coming from.
Just to note a few though, that there are skipped speech bubbles, bubble given to the wrong character, mistranslations and lines that needed to be re-worded to fit in.

She is dealing with the most important part of the project, the end product if you will, so I hope you understand why she's particular in getting things right.
And having failed attempts to get you just adds on to her frustrations. If anything, she has been most helpful in letting me know of any online matters I've been missing out because I hardly have time to be online for other stuff of late and my time working with her on the chapters are pretty short too due to time difference and respective life responsibilities.

I'm glad you don't find it against you that we're re-doing the parts that need to be re-done. I'm sure Raging Tofu will be able to show you the re-done Chapter 2 soon.
In the meantime, I am working on Chapter 8 together with Raging Tofu's Chapter 2.
I'm certified in terms of Japanese language, however I'm rusty due to very little usage of it in real life.
So for both parties it's good to have someone look it over at the same time, as well as help out on parts that we're unsure of in the chapters we are working on.
I take it that it's ok for us to look over the past chapters and correct them along the way?

I do miss my having online time though... Hopefully I'll get them back soon.

Best Regards,
Akane

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

That's even stranger - I did get your email this time, but it's the first reply from you I've received. Gmail is starting to look a whole lot less reliable than I'd assumed it was, which is a worry for a whole other set of reasons, but I'm glad it's turned out this was just a minor communication problem rather than anything that couldn't be sorted out. I'm going to have to have a poke around online to see if anyone else has had trouble with email messages just disappearing like this, but maybe in the meantime dropping the odd LJ comment like this as a backup would be a good way to play things.

Naturally I'm in full agreement on the value of having both parties check over each other's translations - I think we've already proved that everyone's going to make the odd mistake here and there. ^^; Thanks for getting back to me, I'm hugely relieved all could be resolved.

[(Anonymous)]

No problems, glad to bring matters to light.
It's like the other time where I did not get the email from you and you forwarded it over to me again so that I receive it.
I heard that Tofu would like us to talk over AIM? If that's the case, I'll go download and install AIM so that we can talk. I'm basically a MSN user.

Currently, though, due to the increase in projects in my company (and I am working as technical support), it is eating into my life and so I hardly have much time other than emails and having whatever little time left to check on Chapter 2 bit by bit with Tofu. And hence it also affected my speed with Chapter 8 in the meantime.
I hope I get some of my life back soon enough. ;_;

There's quite a lot of stuff that needs to be re-translated/worded and bubbles to be fixed in Chapter 2, which I am going over with Tofu, so it's gonna be pretty slow. Do bear with that in the meantime.

After I am done with Chapter 8 and the other chapters that need to be translated, I will go over the other chapter's scripts to check their contents. ^^

[sethyhide.livejournal.com]

Ok, crap, that was me. I left my brain in the office and forgot to log in. -_-;;;

I have tight/tracked internet access at work, hence no Yahoo, no nothing.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Full sympathy on the work front - if you're tight on time and would rather focus on checking through our other chapters, maybe jaseroque and I could take chapter 8 for you as well? Though we've both probably got a couple of busy weeks ahead of us too right now, and obviously it'd depend on how much of a start you've been able to make on it already and such, but the option's there if it'll make a difference.

I've got MSN too if it'd save you some messing around, though I'm not as familiar with it as I am with AIM. Whichever's easier for you guys, really.

[sethyhide.livejournal.com]

Ah, don't we love working life. -_-

I'm pretty much halfway through Chapter 8. So it won't take long to finish it. With nothing happening, within the week and it'll be done (else it'll eat in a little on the following week) and I can get on to other chapters.
In the meantime, I am done checking through Chapter 2 with Tofu, so she'll be giving you the final product soon.

Ah, well then, I suppose we'll wait for Tofu to see when she's free to talk on MSN?
Since she's at disadvantage when it comes to time zones and free time as she has college to deal with too.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

All good to hear. And oh yeah - timezones make everything so much trickier, but if you and her can figure out a good time then hopefully I'll be able to manage something. ^^;

[raging-tofu.livejournal.com]

Regarding the emails, it was my error; I had misspelled your email address. Didn't realize it until just a little while ago. I'm combining all the emails into one presently, and including notes on what Akane and I decided on (since emails weren't reaching you); please let me know what you think, I can still adjust things in the scans.

I PM'd one of the Mods on DL to remove the drama from that thread; I'm really quite sorry about all this, and I take full blame. I would like to work things out with you on this, so when is a good time to discus things?

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

It's cool, apology accepted. Sounds like it was just an honest mistake - particularly since you would expect that even if you'd spelled my address wrong accidentally you should have gotten at least a message to say 'no such user' or a reply from whoever had gotten the email to ask why you were emailing them about a manga translation thing they'd never heard of, so it must have been some kind of unlucky fluke. It's even stranger that sethyhide's response to my emails didn't get to me until she re-sent it since there shouldn't have have been any way the address could have been wrong in a simple reply. Looks like one really bizarre run of bad luck all around.

jaseroque and I would be completely happy to go back through your corrections next chance we get, though could we maybe get hold of a raw copy of your new scans too? It'd make checking things a lot easier than working from the lower quality version we've had so far.

I think the main Dustloop mod for that forum room has been AWOL for a while, but if you don't hear back from him it'd probably work just as well to post a message to say that things turned out to be just a fixable misunderstanding and all is well. Fortunately, going by the one relevant response there was on that thread, that seems to have been pretty much what people there have assumed anyway.

Today is looking pretty flat out at this point, but I can probably be on AIM tomorrow sometime if you still want to talk things out (allowing for timezone differences and such). But at this stage jaseroque and I are both perfectly satisfied that everything was just a result of misbehaving email accounts and a couple of honest misunderstandings, and I'm very much relieved that's the case.

[kae-dash.livejournal.com]

You owe no apologies to these people. Anti productive posts like these do not belong in a public forum. It seems that you have done the right thing, so stick to your guns and give them enough rope to hang themselves with their immature non professional behaviour.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, it's turning out that there has been a really spectacular string of lost emails for assorted reasons which would have saved all the trouble if only they'd gotten through. ^^; So that public post was probably a bit of an overreaction, but at least the mistakes have been honest ones and things are sorted out now.

[kae-dash.livejournal.com]

I am happy that you have sorted it out. That's good to know. But My ears stick up when that many emails in a row did not get through to your gmail account. That's quite rare for that to happen. Hmmm.... You set a level of kindness that I rarely see in people. Maybe this person needs to learn from you. Stay wonderful chica! *hugz*

[celadonite.livejournal.com]

The DL post made me scratch my head the first time round. E-mails and PMing both failing and having to resort to such public means is plently unfortunate. Hope this gets sorted out quickly and painlessly.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Yeah, stuff gets blown out of proportion so easily over the Internet, but usually you can count on email being a good deal more reliable than that. Horribly messy, but at least it's turned out that the original problem wasn't really anyone's fault and everyone's happy to talk it out, which is all you can ask when problems like this crop up.

[lunargeography.livejournal.com]

...you did a far better job of responding calmly and rationally to an inflamatory public post than I'd be capable of. Kudos to you.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

I have this huge (though probably not irrational) fear of winding up in the middle of Internet drama, so I was doing my very best to take everything calmly, believe me. ^^; And as it turned out, everything was just a bad case of misunderstanding after all, so I'm doubly glad I didn't let myself overreact and make things worse.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm having an unusual amount of trouble with the next part of Ghost Stories, and I was wondering if I could get you to look over it for me before I post it to see if it sounds alright? I'm up to some important scenes and so I really do want to make sure I've gotten them right, even when I'm still officially only at the draft stage with the story.

[wendylizana.livejournal.com]

Hi
I'm sorry if my post is very strange for you. I speak spanish and My english level is so n000b. I use the google traductor for understood your comments (when there is a long text, Dx reading is more tiring for me, sorry). I hope you understand me T_T

The GGXtra Translation project is so good. And in
any project, ALWAYS there are problems (example: time for the project, translation errors, and more) XD.

I have patience for waiting the new scripts=P And the people who speak crap is not relevant =/.

About the scans
quality, only with the "ugly pages", is improved with Photoshop. complicated but possible O_O LOOK http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/773/012rd3.jpg

If there are new raw scans, I hope the lost pages (13 and 14 of the Chapter 6. O_O)

this is a positive message for the translation team =3

sorry for my gay post XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD