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rallamajoopTwo completely unrelated shows that I happened to catch up on recently: (spoilers, obviously)
Avatar
I only started watching the series earlier this year on much recommendation, and the finale didn't contain anything you couldn't have predicted, but it did the job as decently as it needed to. My favourite part of the series is going to remain season two (right up to the last episode or so which included one too many "I'm sorry, WHAT?" moments to hang together as well as I could have hoped), and sadly the series never quite made it back to that high again. Still, I remain very impressed by the animation quality, the amount of thought they put into the feel and philosophy behind each bending style and most of the overall storytelling, and I'd be hard pressed to come up with a series that does a better job of making the gender of the various characters more completely irrelevant to how much arse they are deemed qualified to kick. If more cartoon makers learned from this example, American children's TV would be a less miserable place.
That said, if I never have to see an extended scene of a twelve-year-old boy making out with a fourteen-year-old girl again, my life will be happier for it. Possibly this makes me mildly hypocritical, given I'm perfectly happy to ship the CCS-verse Sakura/Syaoran or Kodocha's Sana/Hayama to bits, but somehow... no, there is a difference. Firstly, no age gap. Secondly, no snogging, and what there was in what I've seen of Kodacha remained safely in the 'uncomfortable, for the LOLs, and/or fast enough not to seem so important' category, while Sakura/Syaoran were very much just 'most important person' to each other in the fluffiest, most harmless manner imaginable. Thirdly, neither member of the pairing has such an incredibly strong motherly or older sisterly vibe with the other one. Any pairing with anything approaching a parent/child or mentor/student theme to it is a hard sell to me at the best of times, if not an outright insta-squick, and that's even when one of the members isn't a pre-teen.
If Katara/Aang had been left as a one-sided crush with hints it might grow into something more in the future when they're old enough that a two-year age gap means nothing to anyone, I would've had no problem with it. I just could've really done without all that kissing, kthx.
Otherwise, the point still stands - other western cartoon-makers could learn a lot from a series like Avatar.
Doctor Who
In short: it was fantastic! But if they do not find a way to give Donna all her memories back within a season or two (and, for preference, reunite her with her tall, handsome stuttering guy from the library episodes), I am going to be a sadder fangirl. After what they just did with Rose, they have a whole heap of precedent to live up to here!
Every Doctor Who finale for the last three years running has been so full of epic wow that I come out of it secretly hoping they don't try to top it next season, because I cannot picture how it's going to be possible. Back in '06 it was Daleks versus Cybermen, which was an automatic geek-out moment, then in '07 we got the Master and traveling to the end of the universe and back again, which was even more of an emotional roller coaster if anything, so news that this year's finale was going to be just as big if not bigger had me a little worried. I couldn't think what they could possibly have left for this one.
This is because it had not occurred to me just how many extra companions Doctor Who and its assorted spinoffs have accumulated since the beginning of its new run. Nor had I realised quite how awesome the giant TARDISorgy family gathering at the end could possibly be. It was the sort of moment that will make the whole episode even if there's nothing much else going for it - which, not incidently, there was.
And those Doctor-Donna scenes? Did not go on long enough! I loved Rose and I loved Martha, but I think this season has made Donna my favourite companion yet, and those scenes found a way to make her even more awesome. The whole finale was packed with moments like that - completely gratuitous perhaps, but no less fun for it. Doctor Who will always be, at heart, a cheesy sort of show where a bit of technobabble can be used to create a spontaneous Doctor clone at a moment's notice or whatever else they've decided they need, but it's the best kind of cheese there is.
If R.T.Davies is leaving after this, he has gone out on a high.
I could've done without the Daleks this time though. I mean, I love the Daleks, but we had them in season one and again in season two, and in that seriously uninspired episode in season three, so this time it was just a bit, "what, Daleks again?" For which matter, there wasn't much in the finale that couldn't have worked just as well with a different villain in place.
And they damn well better find an excuse to bring Donna back!
One final note that actually applies to both finales: in character though it was for both parties, I do sometimes get a bit tired of the angst over how immoral it is to kill someone (or multiple someones) who is, without a sliver of doubt, a remorseless mass-murderer and will undoubtably go on doing his remorseless mass-murder thing if left to his own devices. Perhaps especially where events keep having to be organised so that the villain is conveniently taken out by falling off a cliff or something, leaving the hero free from blame. It's just a little too easy to sympathise with a Doctor-clone who's willing to press the 'exterminate Daleks' button as opposed to the one who would have rather let them live despite knowing perfectly well some other race is only going to get it instead if they're not taken care of. It's also awfully hard to feel Aang's new access to the 'ban bending' pressure point was so very important when much the same result could have been achieved by disabling the guy and chaining him up for the rest of his life (which is exactly what they did to both him and Azula in the end), and yet no-one else even bothers to suggest that option to Aang earlier on.
My favourite scene from the Avatar finale, without a doubt, was in the second part when Aang's asking all the previous Avatar's for advice about how to deal with the Fire Lord (The unanimous answer, ultimately ignored though it was: No, seriously, just kill the dude and get it over with!), and gets to Avatar Kiyoshi along the way:
Aang: But you didn't really kill [the evil conquering overlord she was fighting]. Technically he fell to his own doom because he was too stubborn to get out of the way.
Kiyoshi: Personally I don't really see the difference.
Considering she did personally create that cliff he fell off practically right under his feet and made it perfectly clear she would've finished the job some other way if it became necessary, she has a point there. I can only wish more heroes could see it her way.
Avatar
I only started watching the series earlier this year on much recommendation, and the finale didn't contain anything you couldn't have predicted, but it did the job as decently as it needed to. My favourite part of the series is going to remain season two (right up to the last episode or so which included one too many "I'm sorry, WHAT?" moments to hang together as well as I could have hoped), and sadly the series never quite made it back to that high again. Still, I remain very impressed by the animation quality, the amount of thought they put into the feel and philosophy behind each bending style and most of the overall storytelling, and I'd be hard pressed to come up with a series that does a better job of making the gender of the various characters more completely irrelevant to how much arse they are deemed qualified to kick. If more cartoon makers learned from this example, American children's TV would be a less miserable place.
That said, if I never have to see an extended scene of a twelve-year-old boy making out with a fourteen-year-old girl again, my life will be happier for it. Possibly this makes me mildly hypocritical, given I'm perfectly happy to ship the CCS-verse Sakura/Syaoran or Kodocha's Sana/Hayama to bits, but somehow... no, there is a difference. Firstly, no age gap. Secondly, no snogging, and what there was in what I've seen of Kodacha remained safely in the 'uncomfortable, for the LOLs, and/or fast enough not to seem so important' category, while Sakura/Syaoran were very much just 'most important person' to each other in the fluffiest, most harmless manner imaginable. Thirdly, neither member of the pairing has such an incredibly strong motherly or older sisterly vibe with the other one. Any pairing with anything approaching a parent/child or mentor/student theme to it is a hard sell to me at the best of times, if not an outright insta-squick, and that's even when one of the members isn't a pre-teen.
If Katara/Aang had been left as a one-sided crush with hints it might grow into something more in the future when they're old enough that a two-year age gap means nothing to anyone, I would've had no problem with it. I just could've really done without all that kissing, kthx.
Otherwise, the point still stands - other western cartoon-makers could learn a lot from a series like Avatar.
Doctor Who
In short: it was fantastic! But if they do not find a way to give Donna all her memories back within a season or two (and, for preference, reunite her with her tall, handsome stuttering guy from the library episodes), I am going to be a sadder fangirl. After what they just did with Rose, they have a whole heap of precedent to live up to here!
Every Doctor Who finale for the last three years running has been so full of epic wow that I come out of it secretly hoping they don't try to top it next season, because I cannot picture how it's going to be possible. Back in '06 it was Daleks versus Cybermen, which was an automatic geek-out moment, then in '07 we got the Master and traveling to the end of the universe and back again, which was even more of an emotional roller coaster if anything, so news that this year's finale was going to be just as big if not bigger had me a little worried. I couldn't think what they could possibly have left for this one.
This is because it had not occurred to me just how many extra companions Doctor Who and its assorted spinoffs have accumulated since the beginning of its new run. Nor had I realised quite how awesome the giant TARDIS
And those Doctor-Donna scenes? Did not go on long enough! I loved Rose and I loved Martha, but I think this season has made Donna my favourite companion yet, and those scenes found a way to make her even more awesome. The whole finale was packed with moments like that - completely gratuitous perhaps, but no less fun for it. Doctor Who will always be, at heart, a cheesy sort of show where a bit of technobabble can be used to create a spontaneous Doctor clone at a moment's notice or whatever else they've decided they need, but it's the best kind of cheese there is.
If R.T.Davies is leaving after this, he has gone out on a high.
I could've done without the Daleks this time though. I mean, I love the Daleks, but we had them in season one and again in season two, and in that seriously uninspired episode in season three, so this time it was just a bit, "what, Daleks again?" For which matter, there wasn't much in the finale that couldn't have worked just as well with a different villain in place.
And they damn well better find an excuse to bring Donna back!
One final note that actually applies to both finales: in character though it was for both parties, I do sometimes get a bit tired of the angst over how immoral it is to kill someone (or multiple someones) who is, without a sliver of doubt, a remorseless mass-murderer and will undoubtably go on doing his remorseless mass-murder thing if left to his own devices. Perhaps especially where events keep having to be organised so that the villain is conveniently taken out by falling off a cliff or something, leaving the hero free from blame. It's just a little too easy to sympathise with a Doctor-clone who's willing to press the 'exterminate Daleks' button as opposed to the one who would have rather let them live despite knowing perfectly well some other race is only going to get it instead if they're not taken care of. It's also awfully hard to feel Aang's new access to the 'ban bending' pressure point was so very important when much the same result could have been achieved by disabling the guy and chaining him up for the rest of his life (which is exactly what they did to both him and Azula in the end), and yet no-one else even bothers to suggest that option to Aang earlier on.
My favourite scene from the Avatar finale, without a doubt, was in the second part when Aang's asking all the previous Avatar's for advice about how to deal with the Fire Lord (The unanimous answer, ultimately ignored though it was: No, seriously, just kill the dude and get it over with!), and gets to Avatar Kiyoshi along the way:
Aang: But you didn't really kill [the evil conquering overlord she was fighting]. Technically he fell to his own doom because he was too stubborn to get out of the way.
Kiyoshi: Personally I don't really see the difference.
Considering she did personally create that cliff he fell off practically right under his feet and made it perfectly clear she would've finished the job some other way if it became necessary, she has a point there. I can only wish more heroes could see it her way.
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no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 03:07 pm (UTC)Yeah, you've pretty much nailed the problem there. See also: blatant seme/uke relationships, or anything with a particularly large age gap. There's the odd exception, but it's pretty rare.
I often really like mentor/student relationships, just not in a way I ever want to see sexualised. But clearly there are people who see it completely the opposite way, considering the popularity of teacher/student ships you see in fandoms like Naruto and Harry Potter. Each to their own I guess, but I've never felt the appeal.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 07:39 pm (UTC)I like mentor/student relationships, too. I can handle if they're sexualized (though really, I'm not keen on it), but they would bother me a lot less if the people involved were of a somewhat consenting age.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 01:14 pm (UTC)I really loved the scene where he was talking to his past selves, esspecilly Kiyoshi.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 12:53 am (UTC)It was a great scene, wasn't it? *Everyone* is telling Aang that killing the Fire Lord is as justifiable as killing is ever going to get. Was a bit much to expect he'd actually take them up on that advice though, I guess.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 01:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 12:59 am (UTC)A gazing-into-the-sunset ending would have made me so much happier, though with all the kissing there'd already been by then it was more than we had much hope for. The idea of a 12-year-old that fixated on kissing is not a comfortable image. -_-
And I thought that the fight scenes were too blasty blasty and not enough martial artsy, but I haven't seen that opinion from anyone else so maybe its just me.
I don't think it crossed my mind at the time, but I can see what you mean. Between the whole comet power-up for the Fire Lord and Aang absolutely having to use all four elements as much as possible, all that blasty stuff was pretty much inevitable though. I wasn't particularly wowed by the fight scenes at the end personally, but that's probably more because the rest of the series had already set the bar so high for fight animation that there was nowhere new to go.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 01:52 pm (UTC)aside from avatar, i haven't watched american cartoons in a very long time. i start feeling like i'm losing a braincell with every minute i keep watching them. O_o
though i don't know about now, since the shows we get here are usually months late from when they premiered in the us.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 01:10 am (UTC)Avatar is definitely the exception rather than the rule where American cartoons are concerned, but considering how massively successful it's been, I'd be very surprised if other producers weren't sitting up and taking notice.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 03:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 03:31 pm (UTC)The third season has a special place in my heart because:Aang randomly growing hair! Fire Nation brats go to the beach! Sokka and Zuko adventures!
And really, I was impressed by how fast even the epic fight scenes were. The last battle was done in one episode, duuuude. *was weaneed to Dragonball*
no subject
Date: 2008-08-26 04:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 01:39 am (UTC)...uh, sorry, that part bugged me a fair bit, as you might have noticed. ^^;
I also would've really liked to see Iroh become Fire Lord - even just for a few years while Zuko grows up - because he would've done such an awesome job of it (and a country in the hands of an angsty teenager is a bit of a scary thought). ^^; I loved their reunion to bits though, just about made me get sniffly. =3
Didn't the last battle get stretched over two episodes? It certainly went on for exactly as long as it needed to, anyway.
Ah, poor Dragonball - the battles tended to be a bit drawn out in the manga, then the anime comes along, realises that 20 pages of manga battle only translates to about 5 minutes of footage and has to scrabble for ways to fill in the other 20 minutes of footage they need to produce that week. ^^; It's the bane of so many shounen anime adaptations. (Insert another fifteen minute of Dramatic Staring! and yet another full round of the peanut gallery, repeat ad nauseam. And people wonder why I always say I'm more of a manga than an anime fan.)
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 03:10 am (UTC)Aha, it may have been two episodes. I was marathoning the last few ones, so I probably didn't notice. XD
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Date: 2008-08-26 05:45 pm (UTC)And I really don't know how they'll top it. Really.
Definitely agree with you about Avatar - I also love how that despite the canon relationships, a lot of the show is gen. Like, Toph never gets a pairing, Zuko and Katara have a friendship, etc... I felt like they could have very easily made character interaction all about the romance, but they totally didn't - even among actual pairs. If they had just cut the makeout scene, it would have been even better.
And I have to love them for making the two of the most badass characters be female. And how Toph was such a tomboy. And Suki! I was so scared she would be thrown out in the end since she was only a side character. BUT SHE WASN'T. :D
Sorry for the long comment >.> You got me all excited. Doctor Who and Avatar ftw.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 01:52 am (UTC)Toph could've been replaced by a male character almost without rewriting a single line of her dialogue. I always kinda loved that. She was a character who always made me a bit uncomfortable though, because I never quite bought that she could be this streetwise underground tournament regular, *and* in touch with nature enough to learn earthbending from animals better than any other human on the planet, *AND* a rich girl who could blend in perfectly with polite society. It just seemed a bit much to believe all from one side character and verged a bit too close into Mary Sue territory. She *was* seriously badass though, and I did love that they were so keen on giving girls roles like that.
I spent a whole chunk of season three wondering what the hell had happened to Suki. She seemed far too important to have been killed off off screen, so it was a relief when they finally brought her up again.
(also: icon love! XD)