Ghost Stories concrit request post

[rallamajoop]

Right, I've had a bit of a break, time to start thinking about editing the final version of The Telling of One Billion Ghost Stories into some kind of shape.

I still want to post the finished copy in chapters, as 90,000 words is far too much to tackle in one go, but it'll need to be compressed down to fewer installments or I'll be posting this thing just about forever. So far, the plan is to try for chapters around twice as long as most of the draft ones (4000 words or so, allowing for where scene breaks will work), posting twice a week but probably only plugging them from the comms every couple of chapters because otherwise the spam is going to get epic. If I keep that up, it's still going to take me around least ten weeks to get it all posted. Obviously, both I and whoever's betaing will need a serious head start to keep up that kind of pace, so I'd better make sure I'm a good way through with the editing before I start posting at all. The way my schedule looks right now, if this is all done by the end of the year, I should probably count it as a big success. I am also going to friends lock all the entries for the draft version once I start posting the finished one, since I'm not keen on the idea of having both versions out there on the web at once.

I'm of two minds about how much work to go to in the editing stage. The first version goes, "Hey, look how many people loved this story and/or told you it was too good to be a draft already! Just run a proper spell check and call it done!" The second goes, "This is the longest, most serious project you have ever embarked upon, and it does not deserve to be done by halves. You should be editing this thing to within an inch of its life." It's probably in everyone's best interests if I lean heavily towards option B there.

Right now my list of things that need fixing goes like this:

1. Chapter one needs to be fixed up so that it works as a first part of a long story rather than a standalone snippet, and a lot of material from the draft notes needs to be incorporated in properly.

2. Fill in that missing scene from part 7. (Oh man, and I still have no idea what should be in it. Suggestions, anyone?)

3. Stop being so vague about names! The story would benefit a lot from having proper names for the separate Complexes, some kind of standard description for the destructive storm of mad ghosts that show up when Watanuki's (or other's) lives are in danger, and probably also for each of Yuzuriha's four birds too. (Suggestions welcome again.)

4. It could be useful to include a scene or two with a couple of characters who work as traveling traders, especially as a way of explaining how news and stories like the one about the April Fool get around. I have no idea who to cast as them yet though.

5. Add in a little earlier material hinting at Haruka's existence/Doumeki's childhood. Possibly also work in a reference to the existence of Giant Mutant Birds earlier in the story somewhere.

6. Freaking clarify how long it took to fly to the Complex and back already! There is no realistic way they got all that done in one day, so a little note or two either to shorten everything or to add where nightfall happened is going to be needed.

7. Rewrite the climatic conversation with Tomoyo to include all those things you came up with that should have been in there but which you didn't think of until after you'd posted it (gee, thanks brain), and rearrange the order of what's said a bit.

8. General reread and editing of just about everything else.

Now is the part where I ask people to help me add to that list. The support in the feedback on the draft made all the difference at keeping me going, but it's time to put on the concrit goggles and let me know what if anything didn't work so well. Were there any particular scenes that felt off? Any aspects that didn't keep consistent all the way through the story? Any parts that needed fleshing out more, or that dragged on too much? Were there any bad habits or awkward turns of phrase that started grating on your nerves after showing up too many times? If there's anyone reading this who read part way through the story but lost interest at some point, what was it that turned you off? Did the focus shift too much away from Doumeki and Watanuki and on to the other characters in the last section? Was there too much talking and not enough action at the end? Whatever you might've thought needed polishing up, let me know, I'd be keen to get some discussion going on this. What I don't want to do is make anyone feel obligated to read back through the whole thing to find every little spelling error - general impressions are much more use to me at this stage, and whatever you can pull from memory is fine.

If anyone wants to volunteer their services as a beta reader, that'd be great too. Considering the scale of this story, having a couple of different perspectives would be a big help.

Comments

[ldydragon7.livejournal.com]

Ummmm, the list you have seems pretty comprehensive to me. A bit more clarification on what happened with Haruka and why/how he and Doumeki separated but Doumeki isn't sure if he's alive or dead. Also since he talked to Kurogane ahead of time, clarify if that is Haruka knowing things or if its just 'i'm getting old and won't be around forever'.

Tomoyo being preserved at her age could use a bit more explanation, or at least be alluded to earlier. Rumors about the leader of the complexes being immortal that deadlands people alternately believe or scoff at (but without giving away who that leader is)

Also a little bit more about why she let the go at the end would be good. Was it that she prefers to manipulate people to willing follow her will and forcing them to stay against their will interferes with how she sees herself (as the benevolent ruler with only her people's best interests at heart)? The shock of Kurogane completely rejecting her, when she had convinced herself that he would come back to her eventually? A combination of both? (that is the impression I got as to her reasons) Or was their something else to it as well?

I like the idea of traders showing up. Humm maybe you could use Magic Knight Rayearth characters (i don't believe you've used any of them yet). I could see Hikaru and Eagle exchanging gossip while Lantis looms in the background.

I hope this helps!

A lot of thinking aloud here...

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

A bit more clarification on what happened with Haruka and why/how he and Doumeki separated but Doumeki isn't sure if he's alive or dead. Also since he talked to Kurogane ahead of time, clarify if that is Haruka knowing things or if its just 'i'm getting old and won't be around forever'.

That's an interesting one. Quite a lot of that section wound up being left deliberately vague simply because I was having hell getting any version of events that went into any detail to work as told from Doumeki's perspective - especially since I still wanted enough uncertainty in there for Watanuki's later revelation that he actually knew more about what had happened to Haruka than Doumeki did mean something. I'll certainly keep that in mind when I get to revising that part though.

Also since he talked to Kurogane ahead of time, clarify if that is Haruka knowing things or if its just 'i'm getting old and won't be around forever'.

Well, both. He knew he was getting old and wouldn't be around forever, which I think should've been included in what Kurogane told Doumeki about the conversation later. I was hoping to be able to expand on things a bit if I get to writing the scene where Haruka met Kurogane.

Tomoyo being preserved at her age could use a bit more explanation, or at least be alluded to earlier. Rumors about the leader of the complexes being immortal that deadlands people alternately believe or scoff at (but without giving away who that leader is)

Yeah, I'm hoping to do a bit of rewriting of that section as it is. I would've like to be able to make more out of Tomoyo's immortality - it didn't wind up getting nearly the emphasis I think I was originally planning to give it - but it's difficult to know where it'd fit. It doesn't really work having anyone in the deadlands hear rumours about an immortal leader though, because they really don't know anything about what goes on inside, and Kurogane's camp are the last people who'd pay attention to Complex-stories. Perhaps I could slip something into one of Fye's stories about it somewhere. It'd be tricky though - it's not something that'd come up in conversation without getting a massive FUTURE PLOT ELEMENT anvil feeling to it.

On the other hand, maybe I could also slip some sort of mention of it into Kurogane's backstory so it at least comes up earlier, or have Doumeki wondering at someone Tomoyo's age in charge of the Complex, or something like that... *ponders*

Also a little bit more about why she let the go at the end would be good.

I'm sure it would be, though I was already fighting Tomoyo was tooth and nail for any useful details along those lines first time through. :/ But there really wasn't much more to it than what she said at the time. Fye pretty much had it right with "But there wasn’t any other way she could have lost gracefully once we’d made it so very clear to her that there was nothing she could possibly say to us that would make us willing to stay."

I do seem to be overly fond of vagueness, don't I? ^^; In a few cases though, I would prefer to leave the details open to interpretation. Characters like Haruka and Tomoyo do much prefer being mysterious than being polite enough to spell everything out. I know it won't be very satisfying if I wind up going overboard with it though...

I like the idea of traders showing up. Humm maybe you could use Magic Knight Rayearth characters (i don't believe you've used any of them yet). I could see Hikaru and Eagle exchanging gossip while Lantis looms in the background.

Well, the reason there haven't been any Magic Knight Rayearth characters is that I haven't seen the series and really don't have much interest in any of the characters. They haven't had much of a role in Tsubasa either, so I don't even know them second hand.

You've certainly given me some things to think about, anyway.

[little-laugh.livejournal.com]

The editing list you've got so far seems to cover most of the points you'd need to hit, so I would stick with it for now. Though, I must admit, there was maybe one mention of Himawari in context to Watanuki which made me go "Whaaat?" I think it had something to do with some kind of "lesson" (I interpreted it to mean as in life lesson, of a sort, i.e. the "don't open your heart to others because they betray you" kind of lesson as it sounded rather bitter.) Part of me wants to know what happened, there...

And yes, more description of the ghost attacks would be lovely. As well as maybe a closer look as to the cause of them, maybe? It was made pretty clear that the ghosts get upset when Sakura or Watanuki or Kohane or any of the "April Fools" are threatened, but...Why, exactly? And how do they call up so many others?

Other than that, frankly, I think ldydragon7 hit most of the points. :P


...You still need a beta-reader for this? I'd be happy to volunteer. I loved the draft version of One Billion Ghost Stories, so getting to help with the editing would be WIN. TOTAL WIN.

[rallamajoop.livejournal.com]

Though, I must admit, there was maybe one mention of Himawari in context to Watanuki which made me go "Whaaat?" I think it had something to do with some kind of "lesson" (I interpreted it to mean as in life lesson, of a sort, i.e. the "don't open your heart to others because they betray you" kind of lesson as it sounded rather bitter.) Part of me wants to know what happened, there...

Was that the part with Kohane? I can't think of any other time she was referred to by name, other than the chapter that dealt with her specifically. I will keep that in mind to see if I can make it a bit clearer when I get back to it though.

And yes, more description of the ghost attacks would be lovely. As well as maybe a closer look as to the cause of them, maybe? It was made pretty clear that the ghosts get upset when Sakura or Watanuki or Kohane or any of the "April Fools" are threatened, but...Why, exactly? And how do they call up so many others?

Hm, true, the hard part is thinking where I could include that sort of information when Watanuki and co. don't even fully understand it themselves, and for the most part a lot of what goes on with the ghosts has been left deliberately ambiguous (since the story is primarily Doumeki's perspective, and it's a pretty big plot point that he just doesn't get this stuff at all). I do agree the story probably does need some more information on that aspect (including a name for it, as mentioned in my own notes), since it's such a big plot element.

Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind.

[little-laugh.livejournal.com]

I think it was the bit with Kohane; I'd have to go look again to make absolutely sure. I just remember pausing as I was reading and wondering what exactly had sparked the comment.

(Pfft, I said 'maybe' twice. In the same sentence. xD)
Yeah, explaining something the characters don't fully understand might present a bit of a problem for things. And on one hand, getting it all from Doumeki's perspective, with the ambiguousness, kind of makes it more fun to read, because we get to speculate on our own reasons for the events.

You're welcome. ^^